4 Ways to train to failure

Re: 4 Ways to train to failure

feeds@kickapps.com (J Duggan) — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 12:02:02 PST

I've tried all of the methods described with the exception fo #4. Most of them were with Drew. Incidentally, I had never trained to failure until I started training with Drew. I learned from Drew, just as he learned from Dr. Ken. There is no one "best" way to train. The keys are training hard, consistently, and with progression. The law of progression as described by Bob is one of the most important keys to working out. But, as JGriff stated, you must enjoy what you're doing. Believe me, I used to dread driving to Drew's, and the workouts were brutal, but the ensuing feeling of accomplishment more than made up for it, and guaranteed that I would keep coming back. Even now, I still thoroughly ENJOY training. I'm sure I can speak for most, if not all of us, when I say that it's all worth it--the hard work, the time spent, everything. Part of that enjoyment is discovering what works for us. And, like most endeavors, you will never know all there is to...

Re: 4 Ways to train to failure

feeds@kickapps.com (grffn) — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 17:50:31 PST

Bob you hit on a theme that not many trainers take into account. Enjoyment. Serious training that demands growth and strength increases shouldn't be all fun and games but if you don't enjoy what your doing your not gonna get the maximum benefits. You wont totally "buy in" to the system your using and therefore will always fall short on potential gains and/or hold back a little. The ultimate training routine in the world (if it did exist) would be no good if the trainee doesn't somewhat enjoy performing it,and get a feeling of accomplishment after,and believe in it

Re: 4 Ways to train to failure

feeds@kickapps.com (workforcewarrior) — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 21:13:44 PST

I agree completely that no one method has a monopoly on progress. While I have found what works for me, I always enjoy hearing from seasoned lifters on some of their approaches and often pick up a new thought or two. Appreciate the feedback.

Re: 4 Ways to train to failure

feeds@kickapps.com (M BOB WHELAN) — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 18:27:00 PST

No one method has a monopoly on getting people stronger. Drew israel always trains to failure, does ONE set to failure and trains less than 30 minutes PER WEEK! He enjoys it. Plus, a lot of guys you see at the gym ARE ON DRUGS so you don't know and can't be sure what is working for them. I have seen men that use many different methods that are brutally strong. Its a complete waste of time to debate which method is best because it will just go in circles with no end. *** If your goal is to demonstrate a one rep max in a particular lift, ie powerlifting them a pyramid type workout as you listed is better than one set to failure IMO. You have to train in the same unit of measurement of the goal you have. It depends on the person, what they enjoy, their time, and their goal etc.....

Re: 4 Ways to train to failure

feeds@kickapps.com (manning) — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 18:08:05 PST

is it my imagination or do the the guys who train in the 9,6,3,or 5,4,3,2,1 or ,8,6,4,2,etc seem to be stronger than the guys who just train to failure?they never fail on a rep and progress for long periods.i had some success with this, adding a back down set of 8 reps.your teaching yourself to be successful,you always cheat failure and are not tapping into the nervous system to the same degree.

Re: 4 Ways to train to failure

feeds@kickapps.com (M BOB WHELAN) — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 17:21:20 PST

Good post jgriff. A lot of my powerlifting workouts were not to failure. We don't go balls to the wall ALL the time so we sometimes use #1. It also depends on the type of client, their health, goals, age etc... The key as we all should know is lifting heavier. You do not need to ever go to failure to get results. Its just a method that is probably the most "time efficient" way to train. It makes training more intense and I usually like to use some form of it but it is not essential. Thats where I split from a lot of the HIT advocates who only talk about failure etc (as if it were the most important thing) but hardly ever mention poundage progression.

Re: 4 Ways to train to failure

feeds@kickapps.com (grffn) — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 16:46:19 PST

Todd most people that train to number one,usually aren't going to REAL failure. As far as the set extending post failure techniques, recovery is the only worry there. As long as you are recovering from your last workout,which means resting longer than most will tell you too,then kill yourself in the gym!!! I want to add another categorie. The beating failure method. Championed by the late John Christy. I have made outstanding gains using this method. To failure die hards dismiss this way of training but DON"T. You'll be amazed at the gains you make especially after years of constantly grinding to failure. I switch back and forth between the two and my training remains fresh

Re: 4 Ways to train to failure

feeds@kickapps.com (M BOB WHELAN) — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 16:03:24 PST

No worries. Thanks Todd. About the question, I usually use numbers 1 and 2 for myself and clients. We occasionaly use number 3 and have never used number 4 as defined. We have done static holds at times but not often. Usually 1 and 2 comes close to what we do.

Re: 4 Ways to train to failure

feeds@kickapps.com (workforcewarrior) — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 15:41:10 PST

Duly noted. Apologies.

Todd

Re: 4 Ways to train to failure

feeds@kickapps.com (M BOB WHELAN) — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 13:31:24 PST

I know that no harm was intended, but please keep the names of drug using bodybuilders off the board. Thanks.

Re: 4 Ways to train to failure

feeds@kickapps.com (manning) — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:43:18 PST

hi Todd what a great post,personally I'm in the second group although on occasion after i reach my rep target as described in the second scenario i may rest pause the last two or three reps without setting the weight down.i find if i push this hard over only a couple of weeks i over-train.maybe its better not to set ourselves rep targets but to use systems like the 54321?

4 Ways to train to failure

feeds@kickapps.com (workforcewarrior) — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:30:03 PST

Forum,

In my humble opinion, there are four types of training to failure. I would be interested to know people's personal experience with which mode they use most and find most effective. The first type of a failure is a good honest set where the last rep just stalls and won't go up. You are pumped and slightly burning, but you don't yell or dig deep to make it go up. While your mind may be into the movement to a point, there is no real psychological supplementation to will the weight up. Your set is done, time to prep for the next one. This type of failure is compatible with higher volume training for most conditioned individuals. Jack Lalanne recommend 20 sets per bodypart, all done to failure. I'm sure this level of failure is what he recommends.

The second type of failure involves the maximimum amount of willpower you can use without making it a life or death mental framework. The last rep under your own power may take six or...