![]() ![]() Hackenschmidt- Matysek-Liederman Collage made by Bob Whelan |
![]() | ![]() Cyr |
| Author | Comment | ||
|---|---|---|---|
traininvain |
Can machine squats be as effecive as barbell squats? |
Lead | |
|
Posts: 68 (16-Jan-09 00:45:56) |
In doing heavy 20 rep. breathing squats, 5x5s, or any rep. range for that matter, can machine squats be
anywhere near as effective as barbell squats?.
|
||
Stan Jaffin |
|||
|
Posts: 33 (16-Jan-09 08:46:31) |
Since breathing squats are at least as much metabolic as muscular, yes. As for hitting all the stabilizers as in a barbell squat, probably not. The real
issue may be how much the machine is able to follow your ergonomics.
|
||
grffn |
|||
|
Posts: 460 (16-Jan-09 21:15:56) Moderator |
what kind of machine are you talking about? There is a huge variation here. Are you talking about a leg press or something like a tru-squat machine? I would
say that in general my answer would be that they are NOT as effective as barbell squats. Although I do agree with what Stan said above. The basis for my answer
would be,history. History has shown thru the decades that nothing rivals the barbell squat for gaining size and strength. Arthur Jones who is considered the
king of weight training machines also admitted to that. Even the guy who invented the greatest weight training machines ever, claimed there was no substitute
for the barbell squat. All that being said,Max Bob and others (McRobert) have gotten great results and have alot of confidence in the Tru-squat machine. I have
never tried one,or even seen one live,so I can't pretend to know about that piece of equipment, but if those two guys give it the thumbs up thats good
enough for me. So i would guess that the tru-squat is at least somewhat near as effective. I have never found a leg press that came close to squats,thats just
me,some people love em,I have never felt comfortable in one. If you need variety or need to take a break from barbell squats once in a while an alternative
would be effective for that purpose too I guess.
|
||
J Duggan |
|||
|
Posts: 431 (17-Jan-09 09:55:26) Moderator |
I also agree. Squats are the best exercise, and if you can do them then by all means then do them. However, the tru-squat, and also the hammer iso-leg press
are very effective substitutes. Iron Island used to have a tru-squat when Dr. Ken was still there. I thought it was an effective and brutal movement when done
for high reps. The same goes for the iso-leg press. Drew had both these machines and the results he had with these machines speak for itself. If I wanted to
take a break from squatting, then both those movements would be safe, effective substitutes. It's too damn bad that no gyms have these pieces anymore.
|
||
grffn |
|||
|
Posts: 460 (17-Jan-09 13:24:34) Moderator |
Jim does the tru-squat prevent lower back rounding?I'm assuming that is what makes it so good. I'm curious as to why the same dangers of squating with
a smith machine do not apply to the tru-squat?Again i've never seen one in person so I can't really get a good idea of it. I think My gym does have the
hammer iso leg press. Is that the one where you sit upright,like in a chair, and press the two squares/rectangles in front of you? I fooled around with it once
or twice and didn't really think much of it. Any tips or advice? I'd like to try it seriously to get a break from squats. Maybe I wasn't properly
placed in it or somethin.
|
||
keith2237 |
|||
|
Posts: 90 (17-Jan-09 16:26:54) |
I have tried the tru-squat once and liked it. The big difference, as far as I can remember, is the tru-squat moves both horizontally and vertically and more
accurately mimics a natural squat range of motion. The smith machine locks you into a pure vertical motion. That is what I don't like about the smith
machine for squats or benches, it just doesn't feel right.
Keith. |
||
traininvain |
|||
|
Posts: 68 (18-Jan-09 04:27:12) |
Thanks Stan Jaffin, grffn, J Duggan, and keith2237;
I value your opinions. I have been using a Free Motion EPIC Plate Loaded Squat machine. http://www.freemotionfitn...1_10001_10002_10013_10881 I does not lock you in to a linear plane, because it moves both vertically and horizontally. I know it's impossible for someone to give an accurate assessment of the effectiveness of a machine without ever using it, but, for what it's worth, please click on the hyperlink above and take a look at it. I'd really like to know what everyone thinks. |
||
Silverback1946 |
|||
|
Posts: 61 (19-Jan-09 11:54:56) |
The Tru Squat hurt my knees and low back, didn't care for it. The Pendulum Power Squat Pro is as close to a free weight squat as you can get, plus it is
safe and you can't get caught in the bottom. It can be loaded two different ways to vary resistance in bottom position.
Squatting in a power cage is the safest way to use free weight squat. The different leverage leg Presses out now ( Nautilus, MedX, Hammer, Pendulum) are very good alternatives. Yes, I am aware that some are no longer made but they are available to some. Jim Bryan |
||
grffn |
|||
|
Posts: 460 (19-Jan-09 19:05:45) Moderator |
I didn't think the tru-squat moved horizontally? Train I gotta tell ya I don't really like the looks of that machine. A picture can be deceiving I
know. Don't like the foot area,looks like a ramp,that would put alotta stress on knees/lower back. Reminds me of a hack squat machine which I think should
be outlawed. But,as always,if you like it and it works for you,who cares what I think! Keep us updated on your progress and how it feels when you get rollin
with it.
|
||
traininvain |
|||
|
Posts: 68 (20-Jan-09 01:30:22) |
grffn,
So far so good. It doesn't bother my ankles, knees or back. On thing I don't like however is I have to load it with 300# to get a decent workout. The weight moves in an arc similar to Hammer Strength machines, so there's, for lack of a better term. a reduction in poundage, I'm sure that you know what I mean. I believe that it will turn out to be a blessing in disguise as I progress in the cycle, ie; a 2.5# plate might translate to 1# or less in actual weight. There is another Squat Machine at the gym I belong to, Same manufacturer but it's the weight stack version; http://www.freemotionfitn...1_10001_10002_10011_10351 I think the plate loaded version me be the lesser I two evils. |
||
grffn |
|||
|
Posts: 460 (20-Jan-09 15:58:13) Moderator |
wow they are expensive too. I just don't know why they have to have the foot plate a ramp? That doesn't make sense to me. Have you ever tried a trap
bar as a squat alternative?
|
||
strietpj |
|||
|
Posts: 10 (20-Jan-09 17:28:09) |
If you can't squat "well" with a barbell, you need to address why that it is and fix it. How is your hip mobility, pelvic alignment, and the
quality of your soft tissue around your hips?
With that being said, it is about effort, attitude, and going after it progressively. Forget the tool or modality...use what you like. |
||
grffn |
|||
|
Posts: 460 (20-Jan-09 18:01:39) Moderator |
suppose your hip mobility,pelvic alignment and soft tissue around your hips are bad,what can you do about it? I constantly get spasms in my lower back and are
looking for a solution. Any thoughts PJ?
|
||
J Duggan |
|||
|
Posts: 431 (20-Jan-09 19:20:47) Moderator |
Hammer also used to make a squat machine- you lied down on your back and pushed the weight horizontally, the motion mimicked a squat. The main drawback was
that the machine was about ten feet off the ground. The movement was smooth, though. I saw it a club trade show years ago. Drew was considering buying it but
it was just too damn big and wouldn't fit in his house. Plus, like the others, it cost a lot.
|
||
Silverback1946 |
|||
|
Posts: 61 (20-Jan-09 19:59:04) |
http://www.thepersonaledge.net/new_page_14.htm
http://hptnews.blogspot.c...squat-by-randy-roach.html Both these articles discuss the opinion "Everyone can squat." I used to think that everyone could and should. Years and wear and experience, have caused me to rethink this. |
||
traininvain |
|||
|
Posts: 68 (21-Jan-09 01:59:50) |
grffn;
Regarding your back spasms; have you considered going to a (A.R.T.) Active Release Therapy practitioner. I know of a ART practioner in Rockaway Beach, NY. Please drop me an e-mail when you have the chance; b91st@nycmail.com |
||
strietpj |
|||
|
Posts: 10 (21-Jan-09 10:07:19) |
Griffn:
There are two resources out there I've found very helpful (I'm not an affiliate so I'm not promoting these products to make money): Building the Efficient Athlete by Mike Robertson and Eric Cressey and Magnificent Mobility by the same authors. Just do a google search for those keywords. Also, check this out: http://robertsontrainings...%22+for+soc-ítissue+work/ Within the above blog post, he links to a pdf file which is a tremendous resource in regards to soft tissue work (foam rolling, lacrosse/med ball work, and other forms of "poor man's massage). |
||
grffn |
|||
|
Posts: 460 (21-Jan-09 16:52:51) Moderator |
thanks PJ,I will look into those products. I have gone to a Chiro,have done A.R.T.,and get deep tissue massage,stretch often,yet still get brutal spasms at
least twice a year that put me down for a while. Always lookin for new things to try. Massage relieves the pain and spasms but I'm lookin for some
prevention too. Train I have done A.R.T., it didn't seem to be as good as regular deep tissue massage. Maybe the guy I saw wasn't good,I was thinking
of trying that again as alot of people swear they have gotten great results from it. I am from Boston so New York would be a bit much travel. There are people
in my area but its hard to pick a good one,the guy I saw seemed to be winging it a little and seemed new to it. Its hard to find quality people that understand
weight training and our desire to train hard. My Chiro seems a bit "out there" also and I think I could do better than him too.
|
||
traininvain |
|||
|
Posts: 68 (21-Jan-09 23:50:39) |
grffn;
I found a webpage that shows some exercises for Thoracic spine mobility. I hope that you might want to try them; http://stronglifts.com/ho...e-your-thoracic-mobility/ The series seems to cover all bases from tight pecs to tight pelvic flexors that contribute to muscular imbalance and extra spinal curvature (Kyphosis) . I started doing them yesterday. I think the second exercise with the tennis balls inside a sock might relieve the spasms somewhat. Also, have you tried trigger point therapy yet. It worked on my knees. I was able to do it myself with the help of a manual. There's a ton of stuff on Amazon related to trigger point therapy. I know what you mean about chiropracters. I've been to quite a few myself. It's a pitty that Dr. Ken isn't in practice any longer. |
||
grffn |
|||
|
Posts: 460 (22-Jan-09 16:31:56) Moderator |
train I got a great massage therapist that does trigger point and helps alot but its usually after I hav an episode.
|
||
DKB |
|||
|
Posts: 33 (11-Mar-09 20:38:11) |
Respectfully, NO way! Chiefly because of friction. Which also is IMO what makes free weight exercises superior to ANY machine, including original nautilus
machines. My big three are DKB's, chins, presses (or dips). You don't need (or can't stand) much else.
Last Edited By: DKB
12-Mar-09 14:58:56.
Edited 1 times.
|
||
![]() Hoffman |
![]() Rader |
![]() LaLanne |
![]() Grimek |
![]() Eder |
![]() Kono |
![]() Saxon |
![]() Jowett |
![]() Sandow |
![]() Attila |
![]() Calvert |