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grffn |
joe kinney |
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Posts: 455 (15-Jan-10 20:49:47) Moderator |
I just got and watched the video Get A Grip. Joe Kinney's video about closing the # 4 captains of crush gripper and other training topics. This guy is a
complete freak of nature (mean that in a good way) He's about 5'5'' 170 pounds!!!!! he claims that as part of his routine he would wake up
every morning at 6 am before breakfast and perform 30-60 reps in the squat with 335 and eventually got up to doing 440 for 60 reps!!!!!!!!everyday!!!!!!! then
he would perform his "real" workouts later at night. Meaning that that wasn't even his squat workout for the day!!!!! if it was squat day he
would still wake up that morning and bang out the 30-60 with whatever weight he was at then squat again later. He claims this made his body release
testosterone and enabled him to acheive the superhuman task of closing the #4 gripper. I just can't see how this is possible!!!! there is no way he ever
used steroids. 440 for 60 reps at 170 body weight!!!!!!! I wont call him a liar but I just don't know if I can believe this!!!!!! any thoughts anyone????
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J Duggan |
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Posts: 429 (18-Jan-10 09:29:07) Moderator |
I saw the video too, and was impressed by not only his training but his equipment and conditions. To be able to do so many sets requires not only dedication
but focus. He definitely thinks outside the box when it comes to innovative ways to train. But it does make sense. The grip machine for negatives for a huge
number of sets is a test of endurance and dedication. I guess to accomplish something like the #4 you have to come up with impossible ideas. I would like to
close the #3 and I am going to try some of his ideas. As for his squatting, I don't think he was actually doing regular back squats, but rather squats with
a home-made squat bar that he built himself ( the bar is similar to the bar that hatfield used to sell.) But the whole idea is worth a further look. The whole
idea is called "testosterone for breakfast." High-rep squats first thing in the morning on an empty stomach. John Wood writes about it ( in fact that
is where I got the dvd from ) on his excellent web-sites. I've been trying something like it the past few Sundays--I'll go to the gym and do high-rep
squats on the Hammer V-Squat on an empty stomach. It's not quite the same as Joe Kinney but I'm giving it a shot.
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grffn |
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Posts: 455 (19-Jan-10 01:40:25) Moderator |
I'm glad someone else saw it. he used a safety bar set up but does that really diminish it? every day squatting up to 440 for 60 reps!!!!!???? at a
bodyweight of 170!!!!! Again I wont say this stuff didn't happen but wow I would like to see it!!!!!! I saw him make a complete joke of the #4 thats for
sure! the squattin tho is a bit much to take. Dr. Ken doin that 406 for 23 reps was unreal,but compared to this its a warm-up!! interesting video none the less
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manning |
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Posts: 42 (19-Jan-10 16:00:32) |
hi Jim and Grffn,I'm not sure i believe all this raising testosterone stuff,do you guys think a person can raise the levels enough to make a significant
difference? i seem to think that if you can raise it a little this will be all used up and some more by the extra training.i was unwell some time ago and a
good friend of mine thats a consultant doctor took all my bloods including testosterone levels,being unwell i was limited to training only once a week,well
guess what,,, my testosterone levels went up and so did most of my other hormone levels,, makes ya think ,,tell you something else ive noticed, when I'm
rested from a training session and really ready for the next,if i wait another day or two I'm stronger,lift heavier and am always glad i waited the extra
day or so,trouble is when ya love to train its so hard to wait.
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grffn |
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Posts: 455 (19-Jan-10 16:32:06) Moderator |
I hate talkin about the "chemical processes" that take place during exercise. It is boring and there are too many theories. But I would think that
that type of intense squatting on a daily basis would release cortisol if anything and cause overtraining! Manning your example proves that somewhat. short
workouts with adequate rest are what the doctor orders for most of us. Joe Kinney is a genetic freak for sure. So even if he did do what he says he did it
wouldn't be wise for any of us to follow his regimen.
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Stan Jaffin |
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Posts: 33 (20-Jan-10 08:49:38) |
I'd be surprised if those were ATG squats. Maybe he trained with quarter/half squats as did Paul Anderson. Even so, it is an impressive feat, and Joe
Kinney is not the ordinary man-on-the-street.
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grffn |
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Posts: 455 (20-Jan-10 16:36:43) Moderator |
Stan you could be on to somethin there also. We on this forum think of squatting in terms of proper depth and form,which not all people do (although I think
there is mention of deepness on the video). Another thing he mentions is that he didn't start lifting weights till he was 38-39 years old!!!!! He shoulda
made a squattin video never mind the grip stuff!!!!! I don't want to scrutinize the guy too much he seems like a nice guy and I do believe he is a lifetime
drug free guy. Alot of the old legendary stories of the Iron Game are somewhat mythical.....so add another one!!!!!
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workforcewarrior |
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Posts: 19 (20-Jan-10 19:11:13) |
Back in the 80's when I used to read the muscle mags, 315 for 50 seemed to be the great feat for squatting. (I honestly think it's been that long since
I bought one). It would be truly inspirational if a natural 170# guy could squat like that. I'm skeptical, but have sometimes wondered how much somebody
could do if they did one lift, not to failure, for one set, every day. Do two hard whole body workouts a week and then pick a lift to specialize in, don't
tax yourself and just keep adding weight as it gets easy. I tried it a couple times with deadlift, but only got a sore back.
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J Duggan |
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Posts: 429 (20-Jan-10 19:18:35) Moderator |
I do remember a photo of his squat bar, and him doing a squat in an old MILO--I'll have to look for it.
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grffn |
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Posts: 455 (20-Jan-10 21:31:58) Moderator |
I think John Wood makes a comment on the lines of "we're talkin full,real squats here" on the video. But think about it,lets say he did half
squats. 335 everyday workin up to 440 for 60 in half squats is unreal isn't it? There is still alot that is unknown as far as the science of what goes on
in the body during and after weight training. But one thing everyone agrees on is that the muscle must be overloaded,fatigued,allowed to recover,and
overcompensate,then the process repeated.The best ways to do this can and will be argued till the end of time. To train a muscle hard enough to cause a
"training effect" everyday doesn't allow that process to occur, therefore cannot be the ideal way to gain muscular size and strength. Radical
methods like that kind of squatting can work for short periods of time probably due to things like Kinney said about putting the body in a state of
emergency,but eventually the body of 99.9% of the people will breakdown in some way instead of getting stronger or bigger. There is a still of him under the
squat bar in the video. It is a safety squat set-up, he has his hands on handles driven into a tree that he uses for squat racks. An argument can be made that
he probably used his hands to pull a little,but again, 440 for 60!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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couageouslion.buffalorivercyc... |
Response to Joe being a "freak". | ||
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Posts: 3 ( 9-Feb-10 11:36:21) |
OK, I just joined this forum because I read a few posts and simply needed to respond. I know Joe Kinney. I met him back 25 years ago when I lived in Morristown Tennessee. He lived about 10 miles away in Bean Station. Joe and I got to be pretty good friends. We went target shooting together and on a couple of occasion we went ground hog hunting. He is NOT a "freak of nature" or a "genetic freak" as some of you state. He is a quite normal 5'10" 171 pound guy. At the time he closed the #4 gripper he was over 40 years old. Joe was the guy who told me about the "Captains of Crunch." He told me he had bought a couple of them and that I should get some. I did. I purchased the 1,2,3 and 4. To this day I have never closed the 3 or 4. After I moved away from Tennessee I kept in contact with Joe calling him about 4 times a year. I loved talking with him because he was a guy who could make you laugh. He also had a distaste for "government" in his mouth like I do myself. So we had a few things in common besides working out. When Joe called me in 1998 to tell me he had closed the #4 gripper, the first thing I said to him was, Joe, that would be IMPOSSIBLE without a machine that was HARDER than the gripper. He agreed and then told me he had invented a machine that allowed him to work his grip so hard that the #4 was just like the #1 when he first closed it. At that time, Joe was trying to get Iron Mind to market a VCR he had done and frankly was running into problems. Plus one company he had dealt with he had to sue because they had promised him in writing a royalty for being in an advertisement that they had made up with him and then didn't pay him. Anyhow, as the years passed and I kept in touch, recently I told him I was no longer doing a "normal" workout. I was utilizing the information that Pete Sisco was providing via his "Static Contraction" workout. It had never occurred to me, until one day in the past month a friend of mine named John happen to be at a grocery store I go to. He said, "Hey, check out these grippers I bought". I said what are they "Captains of Crunch"? He said, yes, you've heard of them? I said, I have four and that I knew personally the guy who had closed it in 1998. He was floored. YOU KNOW Joe Kinney? I said, yes, small world huh?
I had set up a page for Joe, (The phone number is no longer working) back in 1998 to help him sell some videos. Here is a link: http://www.bornagainclass...oeKinney/Get-a-Grip.html . I made up the page for him (I'm Mark Reynolds at the bottom of the page). Anyhow, John wanted to see the VCR tape I had of Joe. It was called Get a Grip and was a amateur video done in his back yard with lousy lighting inside of his work shed. But it did work and you could get the point from his talk. Well as I was observing the video again, and making a few DVD copies of it, that turned out pretty lousy, I noticed something when he got to the "secret weapon". Since I have been doing STATIC CONTRACTION with Pete Sisco, I have noticed the looks on the young guys faces at the gym when I start hammer curling 85 pounds 10 reps. Doing the tricep machine with the whole stack plus 160 pounds of weights added. The stack is supposedly 250 pounds. I have to strap in obviously, to do it, but I can push down over 400 pounds. WHY? Because STATIC CONTRACTION WORKS. That's why. My 7 second x 3 reps of HIGH weight in the contracted position have increased my muscle strength so much that I can do some amazing things for a 55 year old guy. 650 pound should shrugs. 50 reps of 50 pounds with each arm hammer curls. Frankly THAT is what makes you "a freak of nature" or whatever you want to call it. Currently I am 6'4" tall and weigh about 270. A good 100 pounds more than Joe did when he closed the #4. Well, here is what I noticed about his "secret weapon"...IT IS A STATIC CONTRACTION MACHINE. PERIOD. THAT is how Joe managed to close the gripper. Not the pinch machine, not the wrist roller, not the machine he stands on with the two handles to do the negatives. It is the SECRET WEAPON. I am CONVINCED and am soon (TODAY) planning on making one and PROVING it. I bet that I will close the #3 gripper within 10 weeks. That's right. Doing 3 reps, 7 seconds, ONCE a week. That means that after 10 workouts I will close the #3. Then I will work on the #4. BECAUSE I am convinced that STATIC CONTRACTION WORKS and that machine is WHY Joe closed the #4 gripper. HE would have never done it with the other machines because they do not work the same way. The "secret weapon" allows you to HOLD maximum weight for at least 7 seconds as it pulls your hand apart and YOU DO NOT HAVE TO CLOSE THE MACHINE. As the one he stands on does. You lift the weights up with your off hand and then grab the bars with the working hand and HOLD IT. Do 3 reps, 7 seconds each and WATCH as your grip turns into steel. My biceps are so dense that you cannot push in at all when then are flexed. This link shows me with Joe back in 2007 at his house with my second youngest son Benjamin. Yes, I am not proud to say that I am the guy with the gut. That is no longer on me. I have been cycling and have burned it down from 300 pounds to 270. I am still aiming for 250 because I have a very large bone structure. http://www.facebook.com/p...9df936&id=1206525631 This a current shot of me: http://www.facebook.com/p...e31e78&id=1206525631 As for SQUATS? I'll take a bicycle to build my legs any day over squats. Sure, I won't be able to SQUAT as much, but I will have good definition in my calves and thighs and be able to ride a bike 100 miles without a problem. SQUATS screw up your knees and back. EVENTUALLY. Leg presses are a lot safer. |
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M BOB WHELAN |
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Posts: 261 ( 9-Feb-10 12:23:05) Administrator |
Welcome to the board! I think that the way the word "freak" was used was meant to be a compliment. Just another way of meaning that what he did was unusual. If it wasn't unusual, we wouldn't be talking about it. I think we all respect Joe's feats of strength. Also, congradulations on your fat loss, your static contraction training and bicycle training too. Impessive. Do you do any regular (barbell) strength training too? ... ie. bench press, military press, deadlifts, bent over rows, front or overhead squats, etc? Just curious. Good passionate post. Good luck and welcome aboard .... keep posting!
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M BOB WHELAN |
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Posts: 261 ( 9-Feb-10 12:49:36) Administrator |
General comment for the board: The strongest natural guy I have ever met, pound for pound, is a modertor on this board. His name is Jim Duggan. Take advantage of his knowledge. He is one of the most under-rated guys in the world and would be famous if he was born a few decade earlier. He is as close to a modern day Marvin Eder as you will ever find! At a lean body weight, he trains with the same weights as Drew Israel and is a natural 500 plus bencher and his other barbell lifts are extremely high too! Sorry Jim, but you are such a modest good guy that I have to toot your horn for you! :-)
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couageouslion.buffalorivercyc... |
Joe | ||
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Posts: 3 ( 9-Feb-10 12:51:55) |
I do not know why, but when I hit add reply a page comes up to put the subject in and it is blank. So all the time I spent writing is wasted. I find if I copy my post and then paste it I'm ok. This has happened at a few other forums too.
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M BOB WHELAN |
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Posts: 261 ( 9-Feb-10 12:56:44) Administrator |
Just use the quick reply. This always seems to work for me. (We already have the Topic anyway) Or start a new Post. Let me know if you have any more trouble but I think the Quick reply should work fine.
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couageouslion.buffalorivercyc... |
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Posts: 3 ( 9-Feb-10 12:57:48) |
I said, and it was lost...I realized the word freak was being used in a positive sense, but the word itself has a negative meaning and most likely shouldn't be used to compliment someone. And to answer your question...no, I stay away from free weights due to some injuries I have had over the last 35 years of working out. I do still use dumbbells for some tricep work and bicep work. Static contraction is what I use to gain the strength and a good partner is helpful to get the weights up for me. I use a Smith machine for my bench work and have had 450 pounds on it. The most I ever did with free weights has been 390 and that was when I was 24 and weighed 240. Recently I had a bet with a 23 year old guy who was smarting off that I could do double his weight on the hammer curls and double his reps. He had just done 25 reps of 25 pounds and was bragging about it and being a real a**. He bet me and I did 50 pounds 50 reps, rested and did it again! Just to rub his nose in it. He has been very respectful since then and when I drink the shakes he ended up paying for with his $20 bucks I enjoy them even better. I'm going to make the "secret weapon" today. Or I should say start it at the machine shop. Talk to you guys later.
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M BOB WHELAN |
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Posts: 261 ( 9-Feb-10 13:22:15) Administrator |
I recently had a situation like that too. I think we all get sensitive about being overlooked or dissed when we get older. I usually train alone and some of my clients, especially the younger ones have NO IDEA how strong I was, OR STILL AM! One of my stronger young guys had worked up to about 350 for 20 reps on my Athletic Edge squat machine which is pretty impressive. It is just like a Pendulum Squat but built thicker like a Hammer Machine. He didn't have any clue that I could do 475 for 20 on that same machine at over 55 years of age and about 30 years older than him. He was bragging and talking so much BS about it that I slapped on 125 pounds right in front of him and did it EASY because I was pissed! :-) He was shocked and just focused on training from that point on and was WAY more respectfull around me too. I was no longer just an OLD GUY or has been, LOL :-) I loved it.
Last Edited By: M BOB WHELAN
9-Feb-10 14:12:56.
Edited 3 times.
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M BOB WHELAN |
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Posts: 261 ( 9-Feb-10 14:16:22) Administrator |
I tried to upload a picture of the machine but couldn't. If you go to NaturalStrength.com, Whats News section, Whelan Strength Training - Now in our 20th Year article ...you will see a picture of it. Its red in color.
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grffn |
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Posts: 455 ( 9-Feb-10 16:30:44) Moderator |
I may be guilty of callin Joe Kinney a freak but let me say 100% that I mean that as a compliment and also in no way am I trying to say that he's a naturally strong guy and didn't have to work hard!!!!He may be the hardest workin guy i've ever seen. We are from different parts of this great country and different words or sayings can mean very different things to different people. Things said on forums can come across wrong also (as has happened on this forum a few times). Can you go into Joe's squatting a little more. You seem to be defending the fact that he closed the #4 gripper. No need its on tape and no one can despute that monsterous feat. Its the squattin that is out of this world for lack of a better phrase. Can you try to get Joe on the forum?
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manning |
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Posts: 42 ( 9-Feb-10 18:06:05) |
this static contraction sounds interesting so thanks for the post, i wonder how enjoyable it is.i shall give it a try on one exercise once a week and see what happens.if it works this well we should ban Jim from using it! hes strong enough! lol,,, on the subject of the word freak and the context of its use here,, i can say that here in the u.k. it would be seen as a complement.i think its great that we all share what knowledge we have as we all strive for roughly the same goals,we never stop learning do we?Hey Bob i spent some time lately looking at some of your other sites,you have some great stuff on there so thanks.
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grffn |
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Posts: 455 ( 9-Feb-10 18:38:10) Moderator |
o.k Jim the cat is out of the bag. I wanna know everything you know!!!!!!!!!!!!lol. 5oo pound bench!!!!!!! at what weight did you do that(not that it really matters!!!!) can you start a new thread and go into it a little? How you got there,any tips,routines,techniques,etc. Benchin has always been a mediocre lift for me,so anything you got will go to good use. You should think about writing a book. Alot less have done it,and got rich to boot.
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