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 AaronCorcorran |
Thick bar DL |
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Posts: 48 (25-Mar-10 18:12:52) |
Hi, I'm new to this forum but I was curious about something so I thought I would ask. How many of you guys do thick bar work like DL. I'm a firm believer in it myself. It took me a few years of training but I finally got over 400# on the Double Overhand Axle DL late last year.
Thanks, Aaron |
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J Duggan |
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Posts: 535 (25-Mar-10 18:28:42) Moderator |
I've done lots of thick bar work, but I've never done thick-bar deadlifts with the exception of Drew's thick handled trap bar. A bar that's too thick will pretty much render the deadlift useless.
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AaronCorcorran |
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Posts: 48 (25-Mar-10 18:32:56) |
True, but I find the 2" bar to be pretty helpful for overall hand strength. they definately helped me finally pull the Inch dumbell last year.
- Aaron |
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grffn |
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Posts: 609 (25-Mar-10 20:56:45) Moderator |
I agree with Jim. If your gonna deadlift the thick bar will limit you on that lift. those are impressive feats (inch,400 thick DL) how about tellin us some more about your training?
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AaronCorcorran |
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Posts: 48 (25-Mar-10 23:43:00) |
Thanks, I didnt see a place on the site to really introduce oneself. I'm currently a grip strength competitor/ sometimes showman / enthusiast. Years ago, was an All-American Hammer thrower, Highland games competitor and Heavy lifter both Oly and Power lifts before a non-sports related back injury ended that. I enjoy training grip and doing grip contests as well as the occasional Old time strongman show. Most of my grip training is event related for whatever comp I'm getting ready for. I often build alot of my own custom equipment anymore to fit specific needs and sell a few pieces of custom equipment here and there to the grip community.
Current grip bests that I can think of include: Certified Red nail bender Have bent unbraced - 5"x5/16" stainless, 6"x3/8 CRS, 6.5" x 5/16 Grade 8 bolt (in Competition), 6"x5/16 CRS Square (in competition), 5.5"x 5/16 Grade 5 bolt (in Competition) Braced I have done 12"x 1/2" HRS, 26"x5/8" HRS, 48"x3/4" HRS, various spikes, horseshoes, and the occasional Crescent wrench up to a Sears Companion 10" Quartered phonebooks, torn decks of cards including Bicycles Lifted the Inch replica dumbell ( my own a as well as a couple others) Lifted 410 on the double overhand Axle DL in training and 400 in competition, 223# on 1 Hand Axle DL Overhand Grip Grippers have closed the #3 noset, #3.5 parallel set, and easier #4 parallel set (in competition) 2Hand Pinch I have done 240# (in competition), 1hand pinch with 2 45s + weight have done 105#, 50# blob + 13#, 3 25s Pinch, Blob Clean and Press, Blob 2 fingers + thumb lift 2"vbar - 290" (competition) with 2" range of motion used in grip contests not full lockout like USAWA Hub lifted 45# plate + 35# plate attached for total of 81.5#, Hub front raises, curls transfer from hand to hand and flip catches, 45# plate hub lift with index finger and thumb only. Videos of most of this stuff is up on Youtube as I know the numbers may sound kinda high on alot of these. http://www.youtube.com/user/acorcorr Thats what I could think of off the top of my head anyway. I'm looking forward to learning from the board as well as passing on whatever knowlege I can to help. Thanks, Aaron |
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M BOB WHELAN |
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Posts: 298 (26-Mar-10 05:28:13) Administrator |
Hi Aaron,
Welcome aboard. The place to introduce yourself is just like you did it, (in one of your initial posts). Thanks for using your real name too. A lot of guys with a fake name, there is no need to introduce. :-) I see you are really into GRIP, and thats great. What about your main whole body strength training lifts? ie Military Press? Bench press? Squats? Deadlifts? etc... I also would not use deadlift as a "grip exercise", (UNLESS I WAS ALSO DOING REGULAR DEADLIFTS TOO. - MAYBE YOU ARE. LET US KNOW.) ..... but I understand why you do and it seems to work great for your goals. Welcome aboard. |
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M BOB WHELAN |
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Posts: 298 (26-Mar-10 07:05:39) Administrator |
PS - I'm not great at grip, but can hold onto heavy weight to lift which is all I care about. :-) ... I'm a natural, raw, double bodyweight bench presser and a natural, raw, triple bodyweight deadlifter, and squatted 2 reps raw with close to triple bodyweight. Jim Duggan (a moderator who posted above) is one of the strongest drug free guys you will find anywhere, maybe not in grip, but whole body he's a beast.
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AaronCorcorran |
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Posts: 48 (26-Mar-10 10:02:40) |
Thanks for the kind welcome Bob. For the rest of my Body I still squat but usually high rep stuff anymore. I pretty much have no L5/S1 disc anymore. Its flat like a deflated inner tube. As a result my DL max on the normal oly bar is only 10 pounds above my lift on the axle. So I'm back and hand limited on the axle DL and I stick with it. Squats currently doing a cardio limited 240x40 on a good day at about 260 BW . I dont bench anymore although I will occasionally get a wild hair and do it for a couple months. Last time I did that was mid last year and I hit a decent 375# in that timeframe. for overhead work its mostly Kettlebells also due to my back issues. When I was younger up and before the back injury in 97' and a 9yr layoff following I was a beast. Now, not so much as I have a fair number of old injuries at strategicly placed points that seem to slow limit me alot more.
 I normally dont even like to mention the numbers since most people call BS and they were all training lifts for my throwing, and not powerlifting comp lifts. But regardless since you ask, some of my bests were:Bench - 300# as a freshman in HS, 405# as a Junior in HS @ 220 bw, 550# just out of college Squat - 550# as Junior in HS @ 220, 745# Junior in College @ 265 BW, 850# just out of college @ 310 BW Mil Press Seated Front - 405# just out of college @ 310 Snatch - 335# as a Sr in College @ 265 Clean - 245# as a freshman in HS, 335# as Soph, 385# as a Junior at 220# BW Clean and Jerk - 465# Sr in College @ 265 1Hand Snatch on barbell 185# as a freshman in college @ 230# DL - 865# just out of college @ 310# BW Vertical Jump 36" @ 265 BW in college Hammer Throw - 65.02 meters in college, 220' shortly after 35# weight throw - just under 70' but I cant remember the exact distance anymore I get a pretty solid upper body work from the steel bending. the long static hits on the bars with everything tensed to the max can hit every muscle from my belly button to my ears and it really works my tendon strength as well. And, since you mention it yes I'm drug free and always have been. I took a little creatine and drank a lot of mountain dew at my peak weight but thats about it. - Aaron |
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M BOB WHELAN |
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Posts: 298 (26-Mar-10 13:49:00) Administrator |
Great Lifts. How old are you now?
I like to see grip guys who also are strong all over as you definately are. (I've known a few guys who could close the #3 gripper who were not strong at all on the barbell lifts.) |
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AaronCorcorran |
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Posts: 48 (26-Mar-10 14:02:50) |
Bob, I'm 36 now. I'm a shadow of what I once was strength wise, but I am ok with that. I have a pretty decent understanding of how to get strong, and have darn good genetics for it as well so that has worked out for me. These days I'm just happy to be able to walk without pain and to be able to DL and squat at all is a bonus. Luckily for me I found that thing that allowed me to still push hard and compete in something without these old issues being as much of a factor. That being grip stuff.
- Aaron |
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M BOB WHELAN |
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Posts: 298 (26-Mar-10 14:11:36) Administrator |
Thanks Aaron. If someone wanted to get started bending nails and bars etc, how would you recommend they start? Its interesting stuff. How do YOU train for it?
Do you have a website for your equipment? |
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AaronCorcorran |
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Posts: 48 (26-Mar-10 14:26:50) |
There is some technique to the bending so it is helpful if you can meet up with someone experienced to help you get in decent positions to start with. That will save months of trial an error as well as help you progress better. I'm a moderator over at the http://www.steelbenders.org forum and there is alot of info and help there which could help you get started if your interested. I train by bending different bars, bolts, nails, etc. We have gotten the progression down to a science by test calibrating different types and brands of steels, bolts, etc with a standardized setup. It allows for a more linear progression of toughness. Best way to do it is to start with something you can likely bend and work your way up. I have a nice progression chart up on my site as well as equipment at http://www.az-grip.com. Bob, your in the DC area right? I know at least a couple guys in that area who could prolly help as well.
Thanks, Aaron |
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M BOB WHELAN |
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Posts: 298 (27-Mar-10 12:49:22) Administrator |
Thanks Aaron.
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J Duggan |
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Posts: 535 (29-Mar-10 11:14:47) Moderator |
Hey Aaron, I'm gonna check out the site. Sounds pretty interesting. I have one question, what's the difference between cold-rolled steel and hot-rolled steel, and, which is tougher to bend?? I remember asking Dr. Ken about this years ago ( among his many other talents he's a ironworker) and have forgotten the answer. Also, what is your opinion of Ironmind's "Bag of Nails?"
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AaronCorcorran |
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Posts: 48 (29-Mar-10 13:19:45) |
Jim, Cold rolled is typically tougher and sometimes the same as a particular batch of Hot Rolled or can be considerably tougher. It can have a little more spring to it as well. Benders will typically use the Cold Rolled Steel or shortened CRS for the short unbraced bends (5-7") and Hot rolled or HRS for the longer braced stuff.The main reason for that is it doesnt have that magnified spring back at the long lengths like the CRS does. That can hurt you like for example Kazmiers torn pec in 89' WSM contest where the promoter substituted CRS for the longbar bending event not knowing the difference. I dont usually recommend the bag of nails unless your interested specifically in certifying on the Red Nail because you would need the Ironmind pads for the certification. The strength increments between the Blue nail and Red nail are extremely excessive and not useful. I recommend stock from a different company that caters to Benders and has an enormous variety of different stuff to bend with much smaller progressive increments between them. The website is http://www.fatbastardbarbellco.com/BENDERSBAG.html. John Beatty runs the site and is a genuinly good guy. His pricing for equivalent stuff to Ironmind is much better as well as more variety. His beginners bending bag has a ton more variety to work with and he sponsors nearly all of the grip comps out there for equipment or prizes. Hope this helps.
- Aaron |
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J Duggan |
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Posts: 535 (29-Mar-10 18:20:00) Moderator |
What do you recommend--wraps or pads?? The beginner bending bag looks interesting. I also like that 12 lb. Bomb. My biggest worry that I'll try to bend something and not do it right and do damage to my hand(s). I've used Ironmind's bag of nails, but that beginner bending bag looks like it has a lot of neat stuff.
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AaronCorcorran |
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Posts: 48 (29-Mar-10 18:29:34) |
I prefer leather wraps to Ironmind pads any day. You can size the leather to accommodate your pain tolerance level as well. I have gotten Tandy 8x10" suede from the craft store which I then cut in half for individual wraps. For most of my toughest bends anymore I use something like that but 1.5 pieces. I can bend 6"x1/4" grade 2 bolts barehanded if that is any indication of my pain tolerance levels now. When your first starting out its helpful to try and pickup technique stuff from other experienced benders. If you can meet up with one in your area it will put you miles ahead. If not there are a ton of decent bending videos up on Youtube as well as an ebook from www.dieselcrew.com on beginning bending. I used the watch others videos method myself to get started. Practicing on lighter stuff until I could apply pressure more comfortably.
- Aaron |
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grffn |
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Posts: 609 (30-Mar-10 15:53:30) Moderator |
Aaron this is great stuff. It has sparked my interest in bending also. Got any ideas on the CoC grippers. I'd love to close the #3. I have closed the #2 for a few reps but seem to have hit a wall. I have been doing strictly negatives after watching Kinneys video. Haven't made great progress. Any help would be great, thanks.
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AaronCorcorran |
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Posts: 48 (30-Mar-10 16:59:50) |
Getting a consistent set (How the gripper is located in your hand) can make a difference. There are a few good instructional videos on this out there on youtube. I myself cycle thru a variety of different training systems throughout the year on my gripper work. Negs can be very useful IMHO but by themselves I think its hard to get good carryover to the last little bit of the close unless the training gripper is filed for beyond the range work. Other useful techniques that I use would be Overcrushes (use a gripper you can just close, close it and try to crush to dust the handles for time. I use 7-10sec mostly per rep), Strap holds (similiar to Overcrushes or OC but you hold a weight up with shoelace, etc using the handles as pliers), GTG triples (GTG stands for greasing the groove a Pavel Tsatsoline term. means multiple not to failure sets throughout the day. I shoot for 70% range), and my last 2 methods would be longer holds (up to 20sec) and 20 rep full open rep sets with gripper reposition after each rep. These are some of the things I do with grippers to get stronger. I also use a variety of other non gripper exercises and equipment that I've mostly made myself to fit the bill. Those are usually not necessary to get decent progress until after you get above the #3.5 though. Hope this helps.
- Aaron |
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grffn |
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Posts: 609 (31-Mar-10 15:22:45) Moderator |
I have filed down a few grippers for more range. Some new stuff there for me to try .thanks
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AaronCorcorran |
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Posts: 48 (31-Mar-10 17:59:03) |
No prob. Thought of one other thing that is really helpful for consistency and gains. Doing your gripper sets between your sets of squats or bench. Grippers are pretty touchy about the activation state of your CNS. For me one of the first things that goes in the toilet when I'm overtraining is grippers.
- Aaron |
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