Been at the gym the same time as a couple training lately who have been doing several sets of seated row, single armed rows and lat pull downs before going on to deadlifts. Not very heavy sets but heavy enough and lots of them. On the DL's (trap bar) they're going from 50kg in plates for 10 reps, 100kg for 10, 150kg for 4-5 and I pressume singles as they'd just loaded 200kg on the bar as I left.
Asked them today why they were doing all these before the deadlifts as I thought they'd do the deadlifts first when fresh. Seemed odd to pre-exhaust (?) back etc. before deadlifts, though you'd be risking poor form if tired. They said they always do it that way to make sure their backs etc are full warmed up. Obviously wasn't limitting the weight, though they were lifting fast and dropping them rather than slow controlled lifts and one had pretty rounded back.
Said if they're doing squats they do them first.
Any thoughts?
Kev
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deadlift
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 longdog.seriousstrength |
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Posts: 98 (27-Jun-10 12:08:33) |
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manning |
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Posts: 119 (28-Jun-10 08:57:39) |
hi kev, mmm, this is a good one aint it. well personaly i would perform one pulling exercise before the deadlift if that was how i had my routine layed out. push,pull,legs,but i wouldnt do anything to weaken the lower back as this will tire first when deadlifting and i would only deadlift twice a month unless i was on a very abbrieviated routine say clean and press and deadlift. Bob would probably have some sound advice on this one as he trains so many people , all the very best john
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grffn |
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Posts: 609 (28-Jun-10 15:37:07) Moderator |
this is a debate that has raged on forever. Doing multiple pulling exercises (hard) before deads will limit your deadlift weight. But Who cares really? Something has to suffer. Whatever exercise you do second,third,etc,will always suffer a little(especially if the muscles used overlap). I will usually do squats before deads because splitting them up works the muscles too much (frequency). Putting them together hits em hard as hell but gives the maximum recuperation. Although there is something to be said for going into deads with a somewhat fatigued lower back from squats. Form could breakdown. Caution must be used.
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longdog.seriousstrength |
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Posts: 98 (28-Jun-10 16:53:27) |
Yeh that's what I was wondering about form breaking down grffn, they put belts on for 150kg and up but pretty rounded backs.
Was just interested in what people thought, as it seemed a but odd to me DL being a big lift, I'd want to be fresh for it to limit form issue due to fatigue. |
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J Duggan |
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Posts: 535 (29-Jun-10 13:08:32) Moderator |
I always did squats first then deads. I did it this way when I was competing ( since squats come first in a contest) but I always thought that working the squats hard followed by deads was a great way to build conditioning as well as super strength. Yeah, your deadlift poundage will suffer a bit, but like JGriff says, who cares? You'll build better overall strength. As well as not overwork your lower back.
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longdog.seriousstrength |
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Posts: 98 (29-Jun-10 14:07:39) |
J Duggan wrote: Cheers for that, makes good sense about the squat, but what I was asking was about some lads doing several sets of seated rows, pulldowns and one armed rows before their deadlift routine. Interested in both wisdom of doing plenty of back work before the deadlifts and also the style; very fast lift and practically drop the bar, even on the warm up sets. Kev |
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J Duggan |
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Posts: 535 (29-Jun-10 18:11:56) Moderator |
I definitely wound not do that other stuff before deads. Do the deads first. As for the style, I would not try to make an olympic lift out of it. It doesn't have to be super-slow either. Do them under control, and definitely do NOT drop the bar between reps. In fact, keep your hands on the bar through the entire set. Even on the warm-ups.
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grffn |
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Posts: 609 (29-Jun-10 18:58:53) Moderator |
working the upper back before deads isn't as bad as lower back. If your doing sets to failure on deads after upper back work you may find yourself stalling out at the top of the lift at the end. And maybe the biggest worry would be wearing out your grip pre-deadlift. All that pulling will fatigue your grip somewhat. As far as dropping the weight goes,you really should be riding the bar against your thighs/shins on the way down. Good luck to your knees(and a few other body parts) if you drop it!!!! If your not riding it down your body,which I'll bet those kids weren't,good luck to your soon to be broken lower back!!!!
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longdog.seriousstrength |
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Posts: 98 (30-Jun-10 02:25:22) |
Nah they weren't riding it down, very uncontrolled, and bloody noisey too LOL! They weren't kids either, both must have been atleast 6'3" and obviously been training some time. They were obviously as bemused by my abbreviated whole body routine as I was by their lifting.
Noticed a lot of the 'strongman' trainers in the gym tend to lift fast and almost drop it onto the platform between reps. Not some thing that looks or sounds good and not something I do. Anyway back there friday for squats, clean and press and pulldowns, though I'm tempted to work on pull ups instead as I'd like to get them working. |
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